The Picklr en BANCARROTA: ¿Se acabó el boom de los clubes de pickleball?

0:02Hello, residents, here we are with David and this is an opinion section that we are going to start bringing, to talk for all of you about things that are happening in the industry. Uh, it could be something from the professional tour. In this specific conversation we are going to talk about the facilities, the indoor Pickerball complexes, more than anything, as there are many that are closing. Hey, how are you, David? Tell me

0:35. This is the first podcast we've done from Vietnam. How is everything? And how did you take that news about the Pickball complexes? Very good. He was happy to be back home, but he was already missing Vietnam. It was an incredible experience, truly. I feel like it changed my perspective on everything that's happening in the world, and I'm also worried. I feel like things are going to get tough, especially here in the United States

1:02, with these sports complexes that have invested thousands and some millions of dollars, because I think the boom is already somewhat ending, but at the same time there are also too many public courts, which I think is competition. very difficult, especially here in Florida, because right now the nice weather months are coming up, you know. So it's going to be a very good test to see how strong

1:38these complexes are, because things are going to get tough, I mean, we can tell, right? In the clubs where we give classes, there are times when there are a lot of people, but there are also times when we ask ourselves, " Hey, are they really doing well here or not?" Because it worries us even though we don't own it, right? Yes, right now that I resigned from Rocket Club and was more involved with Deers,

2:05there are times when I worry because we've already talked about several solutions we can implement in the future. It's been a year, two years, I think we'll be fine for next year, we're safe, but in two or three years I don't know, we do n't know what's going to happen. And of course, the franchise we're working on right now, Deers and Pete, will win the Dil Dinkers franchise of the year award,

2:37which is great news, but at the same time we know how hard they work to keep the clubs and the courts active. The tournaments aren't easy, but it's worth it to give people some context. All these conversations exploded in the last few weeks because there's a franchise chain called De Pickler that started in Utah, and I remember, I don't know if you remember, about three or four years ago, maybe you're not that aware , that an

3:13article came out saying that De Pickler was going to open, as if they had a mission to open about 1,000 De Pickler sports complexes worldwide. I went to Japan, I went to Chile, I think I went to Chile, I went to many countries. I said, "Wow, these people are going to kill her." But this week, or rather on Friday, a week ago, they applied for Chapter 11 bankruptcy here in the United States, which we

3:41were just talking about the other day. What do you understand more or less by chapter 11 bankruptcy, David? Well, it's practically like they're protecting themselves from total bankruptcy, where they need to have certain investors who are willing to provide some kind of guarantee, which I think they raised 4.5 or 5 million to give the club another chance to improve their procedures and the problems they're having, to see if they can save the

4:19project. That's what I've been reading, that's what I understood. What did you understand? Yes. Well, first of all, it's not that the club or the company is going to continue 100% as it started. There are many people, investors, shareholders of this company who invested money, and by doing this Chapter 11, yes, the company is still afloat, it helps the company have a lifeline, but many of these people who invested money in The Picler, their shares

5:01were practically bought out, I think, or they practically lost all the cost value of their shares. So yes, it's a restructuring that allows companies to sort out their current debts, but it's not that many people are going to lose a lot of money. And I think that's why it's a wake-up call to all residents: if you're going to invest in a sports complex, first, make sure you like it and that you really want to

5:39help or want to own one because you can really see yourself spending all your days there. And second, if you're going to invest, if someone comes to you with an idea like, "Let's invest in this sports complex," and it's $100,000, if you have $100,000 and you're not afraid of losing it and it won't harm your financial life, invest that $100,000. But if that's the only $100,000 you have in the account, please. What do you think about

6:13investing in a sports complex right now , David? Well, look, from PB, mainly, I just saw a fragment of a podcast from this company that Ben Jones has with Colin Jones, who are practically consultants for franchises, for pick complexes and everything. And that's practically the number one piece of advice they give, and they realize that the most successful companies or resorts are those that are primarily owner-operated, which I think was

6:48one of the biggest problems with The Pickler. It grew too much to the point that it became a franchise; the owners were no longer operating it, and that's why it became a disaster. And I can say this from experience, for example, with Dinkers, where we both work and teach, which won the award for best franchise of the year. It's because you see Alis there every day, he always remembers everyone's name, greets you

7:15with a smile, makes you feel at home, and that makes a big difference. I can compare it, for example, to San Pierre Athletic, which is similar. It seems a bit more corporate in the way they operate and all, but you also feel welcome, you know? When I've been to other resorts where it's literally being run by a 14-year-old boy or girl and they don't even say hello to you, you know? So, it pretty much feels like

7:46you just go there to play and that's it. So I think that rather than saying whether it's a good idea or not, my advice to residents is that if they decide to take on a project like this and invest, there's probably potential, but they have to get involved and they have to create a community from the beginning. It's the most important thing because at the end of the day there are still many options in

8:11our countries, not that many, but they will continue to grow and in the end what makes the difference is the treatment and how the people who work and operate those places make you feel. I compare it to a restaurant, you know? Sometimes you go to restaurants where the food isn't that great , but because you feel at home, because they greet you, because they treat you well, they make you feel

8:32things that make you say, "You know, it might not be that good, but every time I go there I have a good time, I feel happy." So, I like to spend my money with people who make me feel appreciated, you know? So, I think that's something very important for residents who want to open projects like this. In my opinion, that's the most important thing. Yes. And it's also very similar to a restaurant because I was always

8:59advised, like, never, ever, ever open a restaurant because you'll be a slave to the restaurant, like that's what you'll be doing every day, you won't have vacations, your life will be a restaurant. I think that a PB complex, at least at the beginning and at least as we are right now, which is another thing, one of the problems that many are seeing with these PB complexes is that there aren't experienced people who know how to

9:28manage them. While you're To begin with, you'll most likely have to work for a year or two, practically six days a week, without vacations. Your day off should be for rest, but you can't just take five days off, a week off, and expect the place to run itself. If you have the opportunity to

10:02hire someone with experience, hire them. Don't be stingy, give them a good salary, because those people are like gold these days. There aren't many of them; it's a very small industry, and it's nothing like tennis. In tennis or even padel, people reserve a court, or there's a culture of reserving a court with your group, and people are used to splitting the cost. In Pico, it's mostly open tournaments, and sometimes the open tournaments get

10:42tedious. So you have to do round robins or different activities and themes. So, you see... Hiring a director from a fantastic tennis country club in your country doesn't mean they know how to manage a top-tier club. So, that's another problem they 're seeing. To sum it up, it's a situation many of these resorts are facing: it's practically impossible to find someone with the right experience to run the place. Well, one of our

11:16friends who's the director of one of these resorts—I mean, he was just promoted—said that one of the problems his company is seeing is that these people practically don't even know how to run an OpenPL, which is crazy to think about because we were so immersed in that world. But yes, if you're going to manage a resort, you also need to have the know-how, like, an open play tournament works, the rules, and some

11:47regulations. We've done some posts about that, and if you haven't seen the post, write to us. Look, what would you recommend? Having a basic know-how is important because many people don't have it. And you know what I think now, with the experience I've had these past few years, at first When I used to think, "What makes a place successful?" I always said the courts, the quality of the courts, the nets, and

12:20everything. Actually, now I can say with certainty that what makes a place successful isn't so much the courts themselves, but the community that the club creates. Because we also know of a club that, in my opinion, is the most beautiful club. It's exclusive, with four courts that had the potential to do something incredible. It's a disaster. That club has failed countless times. In fact, I don't even know how it's still standing

12:55. It's currently run by a kid who's about 17 years old, and it's the club I thought had so much more potential. The most beautiful courts, the most beautiful lights, everything looked elegant. They added a gym, a cold plunge pool, a sauna, they added everything to create an amazing project, and it wasn't as good as other places that don't have good lighting, don't have good nets, don't have good space, the courts aren't divided, but they're constantly

13:27trying to come up with programs, to organize events to make it fun, to watch soccer, to watch the... Tennis, Wimbledon, and making a drink, you know? That's what's really going to make your business survive, more than how perfect the facilities are, in my opinion right now. Okay. And tell me, what are the things that, I mean, that you think are mandatory for a pickable club to have? Besides the community,

13:59uh, give me some things that come to mind, that it has to have, it has to have a vending machine, it has to have a machine that sells snacks, what do you think a club should have that's mandatory, that's mandatory? A drinking fountain. That seems crucial to me because there's a club that was one of the first to start, that never had one and they only sold water and everything. I think that especially in the

14:28United States, the culture of paying for water doesn't exist. Maybe in our countries it's a little different, but here in the United States you need to have a fountain where you can get water for free 100%. The facilities have to be Clean. I think there are too many options where you can play on beautiful courts, in public parks, now with ocean views, literally like we were the other day, but if you don't have clean courts,

14:58clean facilities, clean bathrooms, that's a huge problem. Having good programming, I think that's very important, and understanding your demographics. What do I mean by this? If you live in an area where most of the population is 65 and up, you're wasting your time trying to run a high- performance academy for 15- to 25-year-olds, you know? You have to make your programs focused on the older people who are at that age, skill level, and

15:37preference, you know? It's like, yeah, we were talking about duper tournaments, you know? At one point you could do a duper event and your tournament would fill up in two days . Now there are a lot of duper events that don't fill up because people do n't want to play as much anymore, unless they're really important tournaments. So, also having the initiative and the power to Constantly changing things to strive for success is extremely

16:11important. I feel like there are a lot of people—and sometimes I include myself—who get involved in projects I 've started, or ideas or concepts, and I say, "No, it's going to work, it's going to work, " and I cling to them. And it doesn't work out, you know? Sometimes it just doesn't work out because of the time, the level, whatever. Sometimes it just doesn't . So, you have to be honest with yourself,

16:31accept that there are projects or ideas that don't work, and change them, try something else, and not give up. I think that's the most important thing. Yes, I would add that. What do you think about showers? Do you think a place should have showers, or do you think it doesn't matter? Look, I mean, I think it would be amazing, but I feel like the ROI, uh, your return on investment, I think that's what it's

16:57called, isn't that good because it's so expensive. At least here in the United States, installing showers or bathrooms is incredibly expensive. For example, when I was opening the restaurant, a bathroom was almost $30,000 for a bathroom, you know? Imagine a shower. I imagine it's going to be more expensive. So I think unless you're an exclusive club, a club that's aiming to be more like a country club or give that kind of impression to its members,

17:29however beautiful and ideal it might be, I don't think it's a good investment. No, I mean, it's like those things where you 're looking for an apartment to move into and it has a pool, like the pool sounds great because people never use it, but it sounds nice to have it. It's like a good selling point. Sure, it seems like a good selling point, it seems fancy. Besides, even if

17:59people don't use it, it's like, okay, I know it's there and I like that, and I like to tell people, like, look, my place even has a shower and I can shower before going to work. But those people are never going to use it in the morning. So, people think about those things. Little details, you know? Yeah, right? It's always like, for example, when we talk about where we used to work at the

18:22Rocket Club, where you were the director, I almost always showered. I mean, I was one of those people who took advantage of being able to shower after teaching classes and everything. I think it's great, but if I think about it, we want to open a club with four courts, right? Let 's say, or six, or 10, or 20, whatever. You think about it, if it costs you $30,000 to build a shower and you have to build

18:48at least two, how many memberships or how many courses or how much do you have to do for that investment to pay off for you? I mean, if you think about it in terms of numbers, it's tough, you know? At least because there are n't any clubs anymore that charge $300 a month. I mean, that doesn't exist anymore. I mean, it's becoming much easier to play on courts these days. Cities are building nicer and nicer

19:17courts. There are a lot of people who have money and prefer to play outside; they like to get a tan and all that, you know? So, I don't think so, unless it were something like a real academy, a junior development program or something, where they lived there or had a space. Then I see it as more practical because it's a recurring thing, with monthly fees of 5 or 6 thousand. Then I'd see

19:47the showers as more interesting, but only to give people the option of showering or not. I also don't think so because if you think about it , let's say you have 1,000 members, you're not going to put one shower for a woman and another for a man, you know? I mean, you have to do even more. So it's complicated. Oh, well, I didn't have that point of view because I've never had a business like that

20:13, so it changes things. And I feel like in Venezuela you hire a plumber and he builds you a makeshift shower [laughs] in $100, but there are some here, plus there are a lot of regulations, and the city has to come and give you the permit. So it's kind of complicated here. I do n't know how it is in other countries. Like in Mexico, you pay a bricklayer, he digs a hole,

20:42and he installs a shower for you in noon, you know? But it's not like that here; there are too many regulations. So, that makes it much more complicated. What do you think? What's something from your experience that you believe is fundamental for a complex to be successful? Fun fact: I never showered in that bathroom at the Racket Club. Never. I was there for three years, and I never showered there. I even had to shower next to

21:13Rob. [laughs] Really, no, no, no. [snorts] Uh, I think what you said, I think something we're talking about right now, and this is like putting ourselves on a pedestal, but a good coach, I mean, If you can get a good trainer, and especially one who already has a following, a group, a community, and you can bring that person to your facility, I think it's incredibly valuable. First, because this person will bring in

21:53memberships, and second, I always see it as a free worker because, brother, imagine, I 'm promoting these facilities for free because it benefits me, because it benefits me that they are successful. Of course. And many of these facilities focus a lot on the numbers, the small numbers, like, " Oh, we have to get this much money out of this coach because we have to..." There's something called a pro forma. The pro forma is

22:28practically the average hourly rate that each place has to generate to make a profit. But sometimes I feel that many of these clubs are focusing too much on that and they lose these people because, you know, coaching is about giving classes and training. The volume, I mean, the more people. I'd love to charge $200 per class, but I know I'd only have about three or four students. I charge a little

23:00less, but I have about 20. So, for those 20, I pay the complex $. It's 20 times 20. That's... What? 20 times 20 is 400. $400 a week. Yeah, I'm totally crazy, that's uh $1,600 a month, which is nothing, that's what someone pays for apartment rent. So, it's the kind of thing that having a good trainer helps with, and it adds rigor to the place, like David is at Dil Dinkers, you know? Dil Dinkers

23:40has a good coach, you know? And that adds value. I feel like a good trainer, being a good trainer, there are very few of them, and that adds a lot of value to the place. What do you think? You know? I think That's a really good topic you're bringing up, especially since I'm offering advice based on my own experiences and yours. If you own one of these complexes, you have to take care of the

24:11trainers who are actually bringing in money, because many times, like you said, they go for the pro forma invoice because this place has to earn this much and all that. They see you're making money, things are going well, you're bringing in people every couple of months, and then, "Hey, now you have to pay more here so we all get in line." And that's something that happens to us as trainees; we don't feel respected at that moment.

24:40Yes. And when that happens, it's a huge problem because the moment a trainer isn't happy with that place anymore, everything's ruined because we stop promoting you. And when you feel like you're not being treated fairly, that's when you're going to look for other options and you're going to leave. It happened to me at the first club where I worked. I was bringing in about $10,000 a month in sales, and I got a

25:06percentage of that. You understand? It went from that to zero, and that was in classes from 5 to 7 in the morning and from 7 to 8:30 in the morning, when they were literally barely even open at that time, you know? They lost it . Why? Because I felt like they had played me dirty, that it wasn't fair anymore. I had a meeting with them, they said it was the only thing they could

25:28do. I told them, thank you very much, I'm leaving. Bye, bye, friends. And P.S., that's precisely one of the places that's on this list of places that are for sale, that DIN, which is a tabloid newsletter here in PB, a very big one, put out a list of clubs that were for sale, and they were on it, and the news was that they lowered the price by about 50% because

25:59nobody wants to buy them. And yes, brother, that's $1,000 they lost in a second, because of greed. Ah, wanting to squeeze every last drop out of every person and Every hour. I think something very important is that they get groups. There are places here, like complexes, that do well with groups, whether from church or small corporate groups. It's very important that they sell these kinds of events and explain how good they can be for bonding

26:37these places, for the growth, for the improvement of communication, or, I do n't know how to say it in Spanish, the communication within these communities. Uh, I think it's great. You know something else you just reminded me of? Having good ambassadors. That's where I feel I see a little more than just the amount of money or "bring me $1" and all that. But I feel that if you can give them memberships, you also have to be

27:13selective. If you give away a couple of memberships to people who have a good rapport, who like to attract people and all that, and you give it to them just because they help you bring more people to your club, for me as a trainer, it's been one of the best things I've done. So, if you have a group of 10 Ambassadors that you're losing out on are costing you $2,000 a month, but

27:39they're bringing in $1,000. I think it's a very good investment, don't you think? Yes, that's something I've learned to manage with my business. I mean, there are people who maybe don't have that much money, but they can help you because of their gameplay or their community, which in the long run will help you a lot. Yes, that's why, and it also goes to the fact that we can't get the most out of every hour.

28:09Of course, I'd like to earn $100 every hour, but we know that it's a career that, if you want it to be long-lasting, you're going to have to make decisions that you can't think about in the short term, right? And that's something I think we've both done very well, because you and I started practically around the same time. And how many... and this is already going more towards the coaching format or the

28:42coaching model, there aren't many people... They started with us and are no longer here because they have a bad reputation for X or Y reason, or because they burned out for such and such reason. Sometimes, seeing the trends and making decisions that will help you continue in the long term is super important, 100%, and that can also be applied to the complex. Yes. And I also feel there's a big difference between charging a price you

29:20think is fair and overcharging, right? Because, for example, my price since I started coaching pickleboarding has always been $100. The reason I raised my price to $125 was because I used to give private lessons in parks illegally, you know? I didn't advertise it, I didn't do any social media. Now, the extra $25 I charge is because the club charges me for the lessons, you know? But sometimes, like, the other day a friend sent me

29:55information about a trainer here whose hourly rate was $150 for two people. I think it was like 190, four of them were like $250 an hour, and he's literally a player who, I mean, isn't even 5-0. So, that seems like an abuse to me, and the fact that a sports complex lets you set those prices, and maybe he does it because otherwise he doesn't get a fair commission or percentage , you know? But that

30:32really seems like an abuse to me, you know? Yeah, I think so, how do you see it? Yeah, yeah. The number is super important. Um, we're back to what it's about, it's about volume and also not burning those ties. Like, I could get more out of it, I know there are people I can get more out of financially, but I know that could, first of all, no matter how much money you have, 120 is

31:03still much more than $100 or $150, it's still more than vendors. And no matter how much money people have, people are always looking to see what the truth is, the truth, the truth about quality. Price and value of the classes and other things. So, you know? I'd love to get more out of it, but I know that if I want to do this for a long time, and this and this is all very connected to the

31:32Pickball complexes, I mean, these, these, to many places that are burning out because they want to squeeze every last drop out of every cost, every hour of court time. And here, David, to finish up, we 're hooked here, man. Well, folks, this is what we talk about every day. We're going to record this so we can extract content from these conversations. In the future, when Let's keep growing, let's open up a subscribers channel where we

32:05can talk properly without, I mean, names, surnames, places for the morbid people, for the people who want to know all the gossip. Look, so to end here, we are in a time of how to reconcile conil. We are also learning to speak recently. Yes, it's just that English and Spanish, Spanish is difficult. We are in a time when the industry is consolidating. Look, it came out. It is consolidating and there are many people

32:42in the United States who saw the pickable coming as a monograph, which is a monograph that is like we are going to put money and we want to get this return five times what we invested in a year or a few months and withdraw our money. Okay? My first recommendation is, don't do that because most people are going to lose a lot of money. And if you want to invest in Pickable, it's a long-

33:09term investment. And what I mean by the industry consolidating is that many businesses are going to close, a great many. It's very similar to a restaurant. Uh, I think 90% of restaurants here in the United States close because the competition is very, very, very strong. The same thing is going to happen in Pickball, but those complexes that I think Dil Dinkers with Lisa and the Gotel family is going to be one of those complexes

33:45that learn and can maintain themselves for a year or two are going to be, I mean, they're going to be fine for years because they're going to learn the business, they're going to have all this information about what works, what does n't work, and many people aren't going to continue, they're not going to invest because it's not that aggressive return that some people are offering them. But I also feel that we're

34:16like we were at that moment with Bitcoin when people were buying Bitcoin for $10, which is when you say, "Damn, I wish I had bought 100 bitcoin if we were in Vietnam." David, stay calm there. messages for 10 for 10 hours. We're in a time when people who invest and can maintain—not quite at the level of Bitcoin, I don't think—but with exponential growth, but people who are gradually building their businesses, their academies, their training programs, look,

34:53in a few years I feel that we will have a good profit, maybe not millions, but maybe a good few thousand extra a month, you know what I mean? 100%. Yes, I also share your thoughts on the facilities industry. My final piece of advice is that if you want to invest in something like this, don't invest because you think you're going to become a millionaire in a second. I think this is a slow process and

35:25honestly I don't think it's going to be worth millions. I honestly don't think so. I think this is a job you have to enjoy. It has to make you fall in love, it has to make you feel happy to be able to interact with different people who are going to change their day, that is, their day may be a stressful day and they will relax there. Everything else I think gives you this pleasure of

35:56how you feel internally to the money that a Pelol complex leaves at this moment. Honestly, I don't think it's the kind of business that will make you a millionaire. That's how I put it. Yes. You'd be better off buying an energy property or investing it in the S&P 500. Mm. Yes, but well, residents, this is the end of this podcast section that we're going to call opinions. I think this could be the start of this third

36:28season of the podcast. We started one at the end of last year with Angelo, then we did some interviews there, but I think we're going to start this third season and promise ourselves and you that we're going to be more consistent with these conversation episodes, and that little by little, you and I will learn to speak Spanish again and have better modulation. when we talk here with you, dear residents. And also remind residents

37:01to help us by subscribing so that it reaches more people, and also if they have any topics they would like us to cover. For example, I love it when people comment on Instagram or send us direct messages saying, "Hey, make a video about what's going on, how can I get out of my doubles partner, I want to play with someone else, but I don't want to break their heart." Do

37:26you know how? Those kinds of questions are very interesting because many people see it that way, they also identify with you. So, if you have any questions or doubts you may have, we'd be happy to address that topic as well. I love it. And yes, buy the guide. Below we leave you a guide that I created for you, you 5.0. Oh, and also buy our RPMJ, which we're going to review right now, and the Spartu

37:53Speedfire. Below in the link I will leave the codes and below in the description I will leave the links and the codes. And that money, I mean, we're not going to become millionaires, but it would help us hire a designer to improve our Instagram graphics or an editor so they finally have an intro and, uh, so the sound sounds better, but for now, uh, this is what they have to work with. The content is simple, but

38:24the more we grow and the more you help us, the better we'll see. Okay, residents.