El problema del ego en el Pickleball y la falsa percepción de DUPR | Con Tito Machado, CEO de DUPR

0:00EAD residents, this conversation you are about to see is with Tito Machado, the CEO of Duper. We just had it, it was great. He gave us a lot of context for all the doubts and questions we had before I gave the floor here to David. If you want to be a better coach, if you want to be a better person, if you want to be a better friend, buy the RPN palette, use the code house 15

0:26so that, I mean, without lying to you, seriously, it 's the best palette on the market. Yes, I agree. And well, I'm going to leave you with a small premise. Duper tells us that they will soon be segmenting by age. That's all I'm going to say. Watch the episode. How are we doing, residents? Here we are with an interview with Tito Machado, CEO of Duper, who will be talking to us about Duper, what Duper is,

1:03and all the hot questions that you sent us. And for the title, tell us what Duper is as if you were 5 years old. Look, Duper is the identity of the sport, okay? It's a scale from two to eight, where we measure your level of play, with the data we have. This is very important, given the data we have. If we have a match of yours, we can only give you information about that

1:30match. If we have 100, we can be much more accurate, right? Because we have 100 matches that represent your level of play. So, in other words, think of a universal number independent of age, your gender, anything, that looks at the games you've played and with those games gives an average, an average of your playing level according to the data we have. Okay. Okay. And they tell you what you want to do, like

2:01Mira, to start with, well, nice to meet you, Tito, it's a pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for having us. I think the question many of us residents have is, why did you decide to change the algorithm, and why can you now lower your duper if you win a match ? Clear. Uh, look, honestly, uh, this is the most logical and most accurate format we can do based on the mathematical part of the

2:32algorithm, okay? It's simply much more logical because you have to think that the old algorithm only gave us two points. Hilo gave us two points, we only knew two things about the game, we knew if you had won or lost. So, uh, a problem was being created, guys. Okay, and it 's very important that the community understands this. If you played and you guys are going to know these problems firsthand because you're

2:55Pckable people and you're in the industry, if you're in an area of ​​Florida where you're the best in your group, okay? the best in your group. In the old algorithm there were no checks and balances, meaning you could keep beating your same group and keep moving up. I mean, uh, I think the most logical way for someone to understand it is like saying that you all go every Thursday to play with the

3:19Pickerball group, you play 11 games every Thursday, uh, the strongest player in the group always wins, because normally there is always one player who is the strongest in the group, but there are 119 games, but that player is pretty close to the group, right? He's pretty close to the group, he goes every Thursday, he keeps winning every Thursday and that player keeps going up, up, up until he ends up having the

3:39duper of Ben Jones. That, that's a reflection, that's a reflection of the player's level or whether the player is winning a lot in his locality. What do we want the rating to be? The most representative part of the player's level, or we want it to be a punishment and reward system, that is, if you lose you go down , down, down, if you win you go up, up, up. In that area, there had been

4:05an inflation of players who were valued much higher than they actually were, because they earned a lot in their home games, and a deflation, right? With players who competed in the 5-0, for example, they were quite at that level, but they didn't win as much. Their number of games lost with games won was greater than the number of games lost, therefore they were deflated, they were almost at 45 when they were closer to 5-0. When

4:34you look at these factors and think about what was happening, the communities were doing it this way, depending on how much you won and how much you lost, we do n't have, no, the algorithm was becoming less and less of a reflection of the player's level, it was simply up, up, up, okay? There were very easy ways to get up. We said, "Hey, this can't be." I had players who are playing

4:58seniors, not seniors, they are PPA levels, PPA top 20 players because in seniors they dominate, that is a representation of the player's level or it is a representation of how that player wins in that microsystem. Do you understand me? So, with the new algorithm we can look at many more things. We can see, we can see the expectation of what the algorithm believes the result of that match will be, and with that,

5:28give you an average, give you a number that goes up and down. The problem we have is that first there were a lot of people, guys, who were too inflated. What this algorithm is going to do is bring those people who were inflated down, bring them to their real level. People aren't going to be happy with that . If you had a 55 which wasn't really your level, your new

5:55algorithm is bringing in the 51 which you really are, which sucks, and that's the problem we're seeing now, because we're seeing everything going back to where it should be. Sure, one of the things I think you saw in the conversation we three had was that I think Duper is a victim of the fact that there isn't a ranking as such, at least here in the United States, where

6:22people say things like, "Who is the best player in Florida for such and such tournament?" and " You won such and such tournament and you have a certain number of points." So, since there isn't a ranking as such, people reflect the duper as, ah, you're the best player in the area because your duper is 5.4. What do you think about that? Do you think that by not seeing a super ranking, it's as if

6:47a lot of pressure has fallen on him that he shouldn't have, or do you think it has nothing to do with it? Honestly, I don't think it has anything to do with it , honestly, guys. And I'm going to explain why, okay? Because rankings are ultimately a scoring system based on when you play a series of tournaments and they give you a certain number of points, okay? And this, along with rankings, usually

7:12benefits participation more than the representation of the level. This happened a lot in tennis, okay? I don't know if you know that you come from tennis, but in tennis for example, I remember, uh, in Spain, for example, where I played as a Junior, the player who played in Barcelona always had a much higher ranking than the player who played in the Canary Islands. Because? Because there was a tournament every week.

7:33If you play a tournament every week, you'll earn points. That means he's a better player, right? It means you have more access to those points, you understand? So, uh, the duper is a larger representation of the current level, right? So yes, you could say there's no ranking, but at the same time, if you look at the ranking, if you go to the top 50 Dooper ranking and you see the players that are in that ranking,

8:03tell me if there's any player that you think is ranked incorrectly. Tell me if there's any player you'd say, "Oh, because in the end, Ben Jones is the one who earns the most. He's number one. Anna Le Watts is the one who earns the most and performs the best and has the best. She's number one. If you go to that list and look at it from one to 50, you realize how powerful

8:21Duper is because I don't think there's going to be any player you'd say to me, "Hey, this player isn't well placed here." This player is perfectly positioned." What's the difference? Why is the rating so good with the professionals? Because we have a lot of data, and that's what people don't understand. Instead of adding more data to provide better results, so that people have a better representation of their skill level, they

8:48protect themselves. They say, "I don't play because I don't want it to affect my... that's what happens in the amateurs, right?" Uh, nobody, I mean, I wouldn't argue here with anyone about our top 50 player rankings by duper, you're not going to tell me that any of them are wrong. Yes, there is an example, I think David is a good example, that David started playing many 3.5, 4.0 tournaments at the

9:20beginning and I have seen that David and now he plays 5.0, he plays Monys, here in San Ped which is a very good area with very good players. It has been harder for David to raise his duper than for many other players. Do you think the algorithm has a small flaw? That the knowledge he learns at the beginning is difficult to forget as new data comes in, or do you think it's

9:49a eh or tell me why I'm wrong with my assumption. No, look, I'll explain. Our algorithm at the beginning, the first duper algorithm, was dynamic, okay? So, the algorithm, being dynamic, formerly allowed movements caused by the connectivity of individuals. In other words, we know all these people are connected, I call it like a virus, right? Like when we all learned about COVID, right? Since you connect with someone who has COVID, you catch it and

10:23everything, right? Well, the duper was the same. The duper was if you played against someone who had played in a tournament and was connected to the network; we all started at the same baseline, okay? So this was the purest and best form of the algorithm. What was up with that format, guys? There were movements without the players actually playing. Let's be clear, we're in a complicated pickle ball community, you know? You might think that maybe you

10:48wake up, go to sleep being a size 39, but quite a few games were played with people you've played with. The algorithm learned more and you wake up in the morning and you're a 36. But the algorithm learned. Wow, these matches carry a different weight than we thought. You are more differentiated. So, that was a pretty dynamic, intelligent algorithm that, over time, became a perfect machine, but people got angry, okay? And in the end

11:14we have to think that we have to balance, we have to balance, right? that people understand what we are doing, which is already difficult, because not everyone understands it, with the purest part of the algorithm. By this I mean, we moved to a performance algorithm, that is, just because you 're at this level, you're not a five until you play again, and you're a y until you play again

11:40, you don't know, you keep adding up just by taking your activity into account. So, that's why it might seem a little slower, because the algorithm wants to take you where it wants to take you, but it can only take you to that place one match at a time, depending on what you add. So, the only way to move it is, look, to prove to the algorithm, to prove to the algorithm that your average of matches

12:09is what you think it is when competing. One of the things I always tell people when they say their algorithm is wrong or their rating is wrong is, "Go to your player stats in your app. In your player tabs, right? You're going to see some things that people don't look at, okay? You're going to look at your number of wins and your number of losses. You're going to see your

12:32average points per game, and you're going to see your average partner and average opponent. And there you'll get an average of who you are playing. You're going to look at those numbers and say, 'Hey, if I'm playing with a 49 and my opponent is 45 and I'm only winning 50% of the points, I should be 5-0 or I should be at the level I am because there you see a little more of the

13:02story.'" You have to look at your duper as the average of all your games. As your record goes up and improves, and you see, let's see, a higher percentage of points won, that's when you'll start to see that, hey, you're leveling up because you 're demonstrating it in the number of games. So, it's all... it's all a matter of adding more data. That's really the question. If we want

13:25things to be a little off, go out there, play a round robin, 11 games and I promise you'll come out of there either proving you're at the level you are or proving you're at a higher level than you are. Okay. Tito asks. So, for example, for someone like me, right? Let's say the good fortune is that now I do play tournaments, I play tournaments with 54 cu 5 Cos.

13:55This 5 to 3. My duper has always been between 48 and 48, right? But I feel that even though I have 300 or more matches and have almost 60% of my games won, where my last tournaments have been the World Cup, which was below 55 and the qualifiers for the United States to represent the United States in the World Cup, where there was really a pretty good level. I feel like it seems like when

14:29we win matches, my partners always get more reward because they have a higher duper than me. Is that correct or am I wrong? No, no, no, it doesn't have, I mean, no, never look at your duper depending on the impact they have on your partner, because in the end each duper with that data has nothing to do with your partner in that sense. It has to do with your reliability, your impact, your

14:54track record, how you've been playing those matches. That person, perhaps we have simply learned more, perhaps in that match we have learned more from that person than from you because of the information we have about you, the information we have about them. You understand me? We know about you, hey, we see you, we've seen you compete 300 times, and we see that you're winning 60% of the points . We have a series of data

15:21that tells us that the average of all that data is the representation of your rating, okay? Look, I think one of the most complicated things, and one of the biggest mistakes we made when we changed the algorithm to winning go up, losing go down, is that we have to analyze things a bit in light of the dopamine-driven world we live in today, okay? We all like Duolingo, moving to the next level.

15:47We like it when you're playing a little game, level one, level two, you go to Instagram and everyone's on Road to Five, Road to 40, and all that. Of course, Duper's intention, guys, is not a game, it's not a game you have to pass on to him, it's not a No, no, no, no. Not us, this isn't a banner and I think we 've made it so that people see the

16:16green star up and the little star, I mean, the green arrow up and the red arrow down. When you see the red arrow down, it hurts, it hurts in your soul. It's like " punish me," "they're telling me," "they're telling me," "they're telling me," and that's not the case. The fact is that it's a calibration. We're calibrating with the information we 've found, wow. Okay, David, this is the average we have of you, do

16:41you understand? We're simply giving it more information, and with that information, an algorithm takes it and does, look, with all this information, seeing all the matches, seeing how you've been playing, seeing the reviews, seeing who you're playing against , well, we say we're going to calibrate and we're going to put you on this side because this is what we were able to learn. In other words , the math isn't wrong, it's an extremely complex and

17:01intelligent formula, looking at everything that's going on and we come back to the same thing, I think we've given it a gamified twist, right? We've made too much of a game, the duper one, where people think this is about going up and down, or going up, up, up, I need to go up, or I'm being tortured. And the reality is that we're simply adding, we're adjusting, we're adding, learning more and getting to that adjustment, you understand?

17:28And speaking of that, I feel that at least right now what we see in Florida is, I totally agree with you that many players have very inflated dupers, but I feel that now, because of the fear of playing in tournaments and having their dupers drop, we are now realizing that there are many overrated players. Exact. I mean, sorry, I mean, now undervalued, sorry, because what's happening, for example, we just had a tournament this weekend

18:02where there were 9.2 caps, where there were duper caps and we had players whose duper caps we saw, okay, we accepted them. 3.9 out of 10, we see him playing and he's a solid 5-0, you know what I mean? So, reliable or a reliable. reliable, that is, because they are players who started playing, let's say, or were 4.0 at the beginning of the year, let's say, and they have practiced and improved

18:34a lot and now they are 5.0 players. But what's happening to us right now in the area where we live is that if we say the tournaments we do are for duper players, people don't sign up, so all the tournaments that are being held are without duper players, and people improve, but the duper players don't improve. So we've reached the point where this isn't your fault, this is mostly the fault of the chlorine.

18:58Sure, but this is the big problem. This is the big problem that people blame us for. He's pushing us out a bit. In other words, there is protectionism, frankly. I mean, people, look, there are two profiles. People who care a lot about their duper and people who say they don't care about their duper, but actually do, don't want to play because they care. Uh, so, uh, so this is a big problem.

19:21This is a big problem that needs to be changed at a community level, guys. In other words , it's not possible for someone to tell you they're not going to sign up. In other words, their status is so important to them that they care about this " duperal" thing. Look, in the end the only way to solve this and have more people is for everything to be shared. No, no, no, no. So, a

19:3739, yeah, look, if you tell me that player is a 39 with 100% reliability, I'm telling you, we have to look into it because something is wrong. Something is wrong because you're looking for the Aon one with a 3.9 rating. Yes, it's changed now. It's now 4.1 with 100% reliability, but it's a... It's him, isn't it? Yes, but to see how many tournaments, how many games he has played.

20:03Watch the match. Look at the mat. But anyway, while he's looking for that, Tito, you as a company have that fear that at level 45-50 Duper won't be a solution for that type of player anymore, because obviously when you start playing qualifiers and everything, your Duper becomes just as real as the pros', because you have much more information and I understand that, but now I practically feel like there are people who are boycotting Duper,

20:33you know? Before, and we talked about it in the last episode, if you put on a tournament that was going to be duper rated, it would fill up in the first week. Now it's the opposite; now you almost have to promote that the results aren't duper rated so that people want to enter, right? Look, and I don't know if it's just a problem in Florida because it's very competitive, or if that's

20:54happening in other countries or other states. So, that's a question for you. Yes, yes, yes. Look, we really have more games than ever mining and every tour now we announce USA Pckable and app uh uh and the NPL too and we have uh PPA and MLP and everything else, I mean, we have more data than ever. Yes, it's true that there's a small trend, which I think is created more because we live in a

21:23former world, that if someone goes to The Kitchen and posts that they're not going to play because of that, then as another player, they kind of want to protect them. I think, look, let me tell you something, look, in the past people wanted to play duper in tournaments that they knew they were going to win more than they were going to lose, because whatever happened, your duper wasn't going to be

21:41affected. Do you understand what I mean ? I mean, you knew, you had two, you had more control, right? You had it under control that if you played and won, you could only move up. In other words, now people are a little more afraid, they want to control it a little more, but the problem we have is that most people who want to do that are afraid of losing their status, and that's

22:08counterproductive, I mean, it's against... why maintain a rating that isn't accurate? So, I don't think it's going to get resolved. I think we have measures in place, honestly. I think at some point we'll freeze the rates. I think if you don't play you should n't have to maintain your 5-0 record, because it affects you when playing in tournaments. I think we have it there , we didn't want to do that, but in the

22:35end I think it's necessary because I think people are being a little bit and I understand , I understand, but they're not understanding that look, this is an important data point. Of the 80% in duper right now, 80% of the matches that people win raise their duper. In other words, people only lose 20% of the games and their numbers drop significantly. So you can see, so you can see that it's all much more mental than people

23:11think. There's an 80, and that's why I was saying, that's why I might not have explained well that the only way a player presents themselves these days, and I think the only time in the history of PokerStars that having a high duper has led you to make money is when there was all the problem with the contracts and the whole war of the Tours, but after that, duper is literally just a game of egos,

23:42how high my value is, it's not about how I play, but about how high my duper is, and that's why I was saying that if there's a ranking, well, in the end, if you win, what matters is your value as a player, how you win and how much you lose. Duper is a statistic of how you've fared against the people you've played with, but it would be better if there were a ranking,

24:02which there isn't. And like I said, this isn't a DU problem, but I think it's a problem more with USA Pickerball or some other organization, whether for profit or not, that there's no ranking. I mean, you guys who play are literally just trying to make money, but there's no record like, "Look, Carlos won the Florida Regional 3.0, then he won the sectional, and then he won the state championship," like there is in the USA. And I

24:36think that's why I believe that for people to lose so much of the value of Duper, there has to be a ranking, but that's not the problem anymore, you know, everything points to something being missing. There's a problem with the infrastructure of the pickle itself, that too much value is given to Duper, a value that shouldn't be there, you understand, Javier? No, I understand you. I think that in the

25:01end, look, I honestly think that there's no problem with the rating being the identity of the sport, honestly. I'm telling you , yes, and I'm telling you this because in tennis there are rankings, but there are only rankings for competitive players, think about it. I mean, we're not talking about Stacy being a 35, who's in a ranking. Those people are not included in the USTA ranking or the ranking of the Spanish Tennis Federation and all

25:24that. So, it's good that there's a rating system as a way to understand the level, because in the end I think it will give you more points, more data about who you 're playing against than knowing that this person is 15th in Florida, because if you know that they're 15th in Florida, well, fine, but maybe I don't play their tournaments, so you can't be... Maybe this person isn't playing

25:46in that ranking, in that tournament. What I think is that there are a couple of things, look. We sponsors also do it through duper. Brands give you contracts based on your duper. You guys had a great conversation about the coaches, they only hire you if you have a certain duper. Uh, an almost obsessive, toxic relationship has been created with your duper, and in the end, people are... people... uh, look, there's nothing

26:18wrong with being a 35, you know what I mean? This is the problem: we've created a toxic negativity with "you 're nobody on Pckable if you're a 50, if you're not a 55, if you weren't a 6." Honestly, for the 55, he's nobody; for the 60, the 55 is nobody. For '65, '60, you know what I mean? These are natural aspects of sports, but a somewhat toxic relationship has developed around ratings. Ratings should

26:52be an assessment of your level to find fun matches without becoming obsessed. Ultimately, what I'm saying is, when a person is reliable and we're old enough to know that person, their actions aren't going to be so radical, guys. They won't do it , unless you prove for a while that you're playing and competing at that level. So, the less you play, the more volatility you create. That's where you create volatility. So, people who aren't

27:19playing your MoneyAll and aren't playing Dooper, and they're stuck with a 5-0 record and their relayability drops, if they go play an app, they might suddenly see a faster change than they expected. The protection they think they're using for Dooper is n't correct; it won't protect them. It's not right because in the end, it doesn't mean anything if you have a 5-0 record and haven't played in

27:43a year. I mean, I have a 5-0 record and haven't played in a year. I mean, I'm too busy. I'm not 5-0 anymore . Ah, the other day I went to play with Brian Levin and these guys who are F3, F4s, I mean, we played a Switch Partners every round and he didn't win a single match. So, you know what I mean? I think I understand what you mean by infrastructure. I don't think there's

28:06anything wrong with identity being based on a rating. I think people don't understand Duper. I think that's the biggest problem. I think there's a bad education about DOR right now , where people are more obsessed with protecting what they think is their status, than with using DOR as the most realistic representation possible of your level. I don't want my level to be anything other than 45 because it offends me. I

28:36want my level to be 5-0. That's why I'm not going to play anymore because I'm going to maintain the 5-0. That's the problem, is n't it? In that respect, especially in PPAs and tournaments, I mean, I think Duper, and I'm thinking of a specific example of a guy who's been playing Challengers, I think all year, and he started, I think his duper ranking is because, really, his level isn't that high

29:05so I'm not going to say his name, [laughs] but I really feel that the more information, as you say, the more real it becomes because his duper ranking, right now, after playing 10 Challengers against players rated 55 or whatever, is 46 because I really think he's a 46, you know what I mean? But there's the problem with my students who are over 55 years old and they tell me, how am I going to

29:33be a 5 if I'm competing against you, for example, all the time, when you're 30 years younger than me? So, are they going to do something at Duper to be able to segment by age? Whether you're a woman or a man, whether you play mixed doubles or just doubles. Do you have any plans in that regard or not? No, of course, let me ask you something because we do have them, but let me

29:57ask you something. Is that player a 5-0? Is that 55-65 year old man a 5-0 or not? It could be for his age. That doesn't exist. That doesn't exist. Speed. Okay, so, I'm going to give you an example, okay? I'll give you an example. So, if I'm running at 50 miles per hour right now, right? I'm going from here to the other building, 50 miles per hour, right? It's 50 miles per hour, it doesn't matter

30:23if I run it at 30 or 65, right? There are 50. It's a specific data point, isn't it? It's a piece of information, there's no way , it doesn't matter, everyone can do it. You don't understand me, do you understand where I'm going with this? I mean, no, I totally agree 100%. And that's where another question comes in. Excuse me for interrupting, but you just reminded me of something. Just a second, because he's

30:47coming now. I can tell you that he can be 5-0 on the right side if he has a 5-0 playing on the left side, you understand? So, that's also the difference we talked about in the last episode. I feel like Carlos is saying, he's a 47 or 48 playing mixed doubles because he doesn't like it or doesn't play it that much, but he's an easy 52 on the left when playing men, you know?

31:10So, okay, we're not going back to the same thing there either. Look, uh, I think we're going to do the thing about it, and I say this sincerely, we're going to add the subscores. There are two things that people need to understand. One of them is that people don't have as much data as they think by playing with specific groups. I mean, people don't, I mean, no, what do you want me to do, give you a

31:35wave and tell you? Because every 10 years I raise your level by 1.5. Because you went up 10 years. But what if you're playing worse? Do you know what I mean? What if you 're playing worse? So, where is the counting of that? That's a... It's a... The other important thing is that I play with 65-year-old people who are indeed 5 tr. From the moment that person exists, then, how do I classify them?

32:02Where do I put them? I give them a 65 because they are 65 years old and 53. From the moment there is a player of an age that does represent that level of play, you can no longer reach that level because you are the same age as the other person and you are very different from that person. You understand me? You know what I mean, there are cases, uh, Lee Withwien, uh, uh, I don't

32:22know how old he is now, but oh well. Uh 53. How old is he? 53. Well, like 53, I think. Well, but lee le lee is over 50 and she's a high five, a five zoom, that level already exists, it's there, the woman has it. So, it's not complicated to explain it now, we're going to do it because it's a problem that many people are complaining about and we want to

32:48look at it, and so, no, I mean, for me there isn't a 50 out of 65, it's just like that, but since it's something we're hearing is very common, we're going to add it and we're going to call it subscores. Everyone will have access to that. What we're going to calculate is your level when playing with players from that group. Okay, that's it. We're going to do the same in mixed. Mixed is different.

33:11Mixed, I agree. Mixed is another story, and I think there is a valid argument there because the mixed team plays differently strategically. So, we're already talking about someone else from another part who I do think deserves a slightly higher category , because there are people who play very well, I think they play very well, on the other hand. Then we will add that. Hey, everyone else, guys. If we have 300 matches, how many

33:40matches have you played in different positions with different partners, with different etc.? Ultimately, the most important thing is that people are giving the algorithm as much data as possible so we can find out who you are. So, in the end, yes, I mean, if guys, you know the peak better than anyone, you knew someone, I don't know, without a little reliability, that you see their duper, I mean, with high reliability, that you see their

34:04duper, you told me about the guy from 46, for example, and you say to me, "Oh, that person is bad." No, the number does not reflect their level. That happens with non-relief players because this is another thing that always happens when people are complaining to me about something, and I tell them, "Okay, but tell me one person you play with, who's a non- relief player, who's doing badly." I look it up,

34:25name one person, and everyone's like, "Oh, well, no, it's not that they're doing badly, but still." Normally, the main complaints we get, guys, are like, "Oh, I was a 51 and now I'm a 49." Or, the other day, someone who was a 51 dropped to 49, and the drop was so drastic that they literally dropped 0 for 0, 003, you know? What happened was that the 5 stopped showing up and dropped to 49, and they

34:57sent me 10 emails saying it was unfair, that they were a FO, that their status was wrong, and so on. So, the biggest, the biggest change I've seen, so you'd call it abrupt, is that players who are just starting to play... In tournaments right now, it's clear that the starting pool is much smaller than it was in 2023, which I think was when they switched to Win and Loss. I think that's

35:24something that will start to change over time. And I do think it's a good idea to implement the freeze so that everything can gradually adjust, because right now, from my perspective, there seem to be several subcultures within the peak. There are people with a 55 rating from two years ago who haven't played any tournaments, but you also have the 5.1 rating, like us, who play between six

35:57and ten tournaments a year. Then you have people who have been playing for two or more years, and then you have the new players who are just starting to play tournaments, which is a completely different world. That's why I think the freeze you were mentioning is a very good option. I do have a key question here. which I think is something we have seen in our students who sound like they're

36:24between 3.0 and 3.5. What do you think about all the complexes that use Duper as a basis for whether or not you play in open matches? Uh, look, this is, look, uh, it's just that, well, it's not that I do n't love it when you do this to me, okay, look, one, this isn't a matter of Duper, guys, okay? I mean, and I want to explain, no, no, no, this problem has existed in

36:56racket sports forever, okay? So, this is a problem that when I was teaching tennis, I had Stacy, who wanted to play in the 35 Clinic on Fridays, but I knew it wasn't a 35. So what happened was that I would tell Stacy, "Hey, Stacy, you can't play in the 35 Clinic." Uh, and then she would tell me that I had something against her, and then my manager would come and

37:22tell me, "Hey, Tito, "Are you telling me ?" He won't let me be in the group. I 'm paying. I want to be at the 35 clinic because I'm a 35. I beat him once at a 35. We coaches had to deal with that problem, and you know that better than anyone. We had to deal with it . There was no excuse. There was no one you could blame because there wasn't

37:44a metric in tennis where you could say, "Well, here's the line, and that's it." So, people get angry about it, they see it as toxic, but this has happened, you know why? For the coach's sake. And this happens for the coach's sake because the coach can tell people, "It's because of Duper," and it's not me who has to tell you, "Hey, David, you 're just not good enough to come on Friday." Right.

38:09So, this is why this has happened, and that's why it's been good for the coaches, that the coaches excuse themselves with Duper. Besides, we've pushed That coaches make excuses about Duper and make us the bad guy here, because I'm a coach, I'm a coach, and this is one of the biggest problems that happens in clubs: players wanting to play in groups they ca n't play in because, on top of that, when that

38:36person moves up, the other eight complain and tell you that David shouldn't be in this group and that he shouldn't come. So, so, so, this is what I'm talking about. Coaches, this is what they do, uh, yes, we can say, it's toxic, it's toxic, uh, it's not good for this, it's not good for that. Well, but who thinks about the coach? Who thinks about the coach? And who thinks that many of these

39:00players might not have the level to play? And who thinks, you know? That in the end we're trying to create a healthier environment, and what do you want me to say? If you're 55 years old and they tell you that you can't play in the Friday group, it's no big deal, man. It's no big deal to play in the 25s. Show that you're... Better. And this, this is a cultural thing with Pokerwall now, where

39:22everyone puts you guys in " duper," it's like, "duper" for you. Come on, uh, you guys are the bad guys. Uh, "duper," [ __ ], "duper," it's, uh, "duper sack," and it's really very much related to the personal egos of players who want to be part of a certain social group through a number, which is being used for the coach's benefit so he can divide the groups as best he can without having to

39:53tell Taisy, "Tasy, don't play because I don't think you should play in this group." And you guys have experienced this 400 times, and there are people who have told you they want to play in that group, and you've had to tell them, "Today Stacy can't play in that group, and ST has broken down, gotten angry with you, or sent an email to the club and put you guys in a difficult position."

40:23That's very true, because you just reminded me of a student I had who wanted Being part of the group of 35, but in my opinion, I was a 30, right? And our partner, who couldn't be here today due to personal reasons, Angelito, he has the Duper Coach certification. So I sent it to my student and said, "Okay, why don't you go be the Duper Coach with Angelo, and he'll give you a real Duper Rating based on

40:49their metrics?" Well, it came out as a 2.7, and he never came back to class. [laughs] We lost him, but it was true, I mean, it wasn't his level, you know? So, yes, it's true that many of us live in a world that isn't real, in terms of the level we 're actually at, and that's very clear. Yes. It's not that Pball is a complex sport because of that, because it's such an

41:18accessible sport that it seems like you're more competitive than you actually are in certain matches. So, the relativity of distance, of the court, how easy it is to start playing the sport and see players from outside who don't seem that good, but who might... They earn more than they deserve, it creates a false perception that you can play at that level. Guys, it's happened to me, this

41:45happens to me. I go to PPAs and I see... I was in the league in India and I was with all these pros, and every time I go to a professional tournament I say to myself, "Ah, I'll train for six months and I'll be here." I say it, I think about it, and it's not true, it's not true. These people are trained, these people know how to play. It's just that the sport seems

42:05easier than it is. It creates false understandings of the players, and I understand you, I understand why people complain or why the keepers... Honestly, guys, I think it's the best thing that can happen for the club, because in the end, we coaches shouldn't be dealing with other people's egos. We 're trying to create the best experience for as many people as possible at the club. Of course, Stacy at that moment feels... Separated. I'm sorry, but you

42:44're protecting the other 10 people. That's how I see it. Right. And that's when I come in with one of these last questions, how is it going to work? I saw that they released a news story about starting to work with artificial intelligence. What gaps will this new technology fill? Look, one of the... let's talk about something. I'm obsessed with transparency, guys. I mean, with transparency, that's why when I come to this

43:16podcast and say exactly what I think with you, I'm also comfortable with you, we're friends now, and it's a relaxed atmosphere. Right, right, right, right. So, I feel like a 10 here and I can talk about everything, but I try to be very transparent because in the end, when I explain things, guys, when I explain them, I think it's complicated to tell me, 'Tito, you're wrong ,' because I think we're quite... Logical, man.

43:44I think people see us a bit like a black box, and I think we're much more logical and we solve problems. I think that the way all those people would solve things if they had the context we have—because I think one of the things I've done with you today is give context to many of the situations you experience, the problems Duper faces—I think if I explain the context to you, you'd say, "Oh, damn, he's right, you

44:09know?" No, or maybe he's wrong, but it makes sense. That makes sense. So, with AI, uh, another thing I want to add is, look, everyone is talking to us about things with what you guys said before. If I play on the right, I play on the left. If I play in such and such, I play in which. If the main one, Dooper's main complaint is they're targeting my partner. They're

44:35all attacking my teammates and I'm not even touching the ball. I don't know, my partner is the one messing with my duper, right? So, look, the only way we can analyze that is if you record yourself, okay? The only way, because I don't see you playing, man. I can't tell if you're playing on the left or the right, and I can't tell who's getting more balls thrown to because I don't have that information.

45:03So, the idea with Duperai is that we're creating a program with several companies that have access to videos and everything else. If you want to upload your matches using video, we can see who has hit the balls the most, who is targeting, who is playing on which side, and with that information, give you a way to say, for example, if we play a match and you only hit the balls 30% of the time, you

45:32should receive all the negative credit. Maybe not, maybe you're not navigating the playing field well, but what we want is for many of the perceptions— which doesn't sound bad, but it would be good if this were in English too, to show it to the whole world—but many of the perceptions that people have, guys, are much more wrong than they think. Many people think they are targeted much more than their colleague is

46:01. Many people think they are much better players than their teammates in the game than they actually are. So, for me it's a little bit, you want to see this, I'll give it to you, but you'll see that you weren't as right as you wanted, because in the end I'm going to give you transparency and I'm going to tell you, "Look, take more of your, do you want to see your rating with

46:20playing 60 plus?" Okay, I'll give it to you. But you know what? With your rating or 60 Plus, maybe you only have three matches because you've only played three matches with where all four people on the court have 60 Plus because Pikeb is a player who plays with many ages. I know it won't be that easy, I have four of your games,

46:37but I'll give it to you if that's what you want, I'll give it to you because in the end that's what you 're asking me for. So I'm on a mission to try and show, by giving everyone everything they want, that they see the context and logic that I'm offering them, because it's very complicated. I'm on a lot of podcasts lately, I'm doing it on purpose, I try to be everywhere I can, but it's really complicated

46:59because people already have their own ideas so ingrained that until they talk to me directly, guys, I promise you, no, they're already mentally prepared, right? And I think what you're saying is very true for the residents who are listening to us . I always recommend to my students that they record themselves because they'll realize that many things they think they're doing in the game, they're not actually doing, you know? So I think

47:31the most realistic way to truly see yourself is by recording yourself, and many decide not to do it for fear of seeing failure or not doing what they think they are doing in their head. So, I think I totally agree with you on that point. And to finish, tell me, what do you think of all these companies that, oh no, this is the new company that's going to replace

47:58Duper? Are you afraid of them, or have you learned from things they're doing? Tell us so we can end up here, huh ? No, look, UTR came along, which is a huge company, a giant company with 300 employees, and what happened? They left the industry, app, USP, or seon with Duper, the two tours they had are with Duper, I mean, not a company with a lot of investment, with a lot of backing, with a

48:26lot of everything. Look, the most important thing is, look, I have deals with PPA, for example, and with Pable Tournament they're forever, okay? These are deals for the history books, I mean, I have deals with Switch, I have deals with others, so there's a company that's coming out and honestly, in a way, look, I think competition, guys, is very important, okay? But hey, fair competition, you understand? Saying things that exist and

48:55that are true and that and that and that have backing, right? When I go and say, "No, I'm going to use AI and I have this, but if you don't have players, if you have 1000 players and you don't have match data, and you don't have videos because the video companies are with me, and you don't have clubs because the clubs are with me, how are you going to give it a rating in the

49:17end?" We're talking, we're talking, look, people can say whatever they want, guys. Any algorithm, any data point is only as good as the data you have, you understand? There's no other way, right? I mean, no, no, I mean, the math these days, guys, you're going to use GPT, it writes you a formula and you apply it, and the formulas are perfect, they're mathematical formulas, you understand? They can't be wrong, they're formulas, okay? Obviously, you add

49:40different things and stuff, and I have engineers who have been engineers for Man Sacks, but what matters, what really matters, is the data you're giving the system. So I think there's a company coming out that's just kind of trying To gain some market traction by being the anti-oper. I have a rating for ages. I have a rating for ages 45 and up. Uh, you have a rating, every year you have a

50:05different rating. It's all a bit like criticizing Duper and criticizing the anti-oper and the anti-oper and the anti-oper, and look, they have less than 1000 users, I mean, they don't have anything. So, we have millions of users who want, and we come back to the same thing, which is a lot, but in the end, we do have an app, USPs, like PPAs, NPLs, 10,000 clubs, millions of users, and so on. And I'm

50:33not saying this because you know me, you knew me before Duper was what it is now, man, we're warriors, brother, we care about the community, and people can say whatever they want, but man, we've been killing ourselves for the community. People say, "Well, Duper this, man." Duper doesn't make money, man, if it weren't for sponsors." We haven't screwed anyone over. Obviously, we're testing a bit with Duper Plus now to keep things

50:58free, to see how we monetize everything, and people are like, "Oh, Duper monetizes this, I don't know what, you bastards, and I have 50 people on staff." What do I do? What do I do to do everything for all the duper boy clubs? They have an account manager, we help them. We have given college scholarships to students. We give, that is, $100,000 in price money per manual pickable. We help the federations. We help high

51:24schoolers with pickable positions. So, tell me one company that has done more for pickerball. We provide certifications for coaches, we promote cars, we help, I mean, tell me one company that has done more for amateurs in a tangible way, huh, than duper. Therefore, if someone wants to come and create this idea of ​​the antichrist that we are showing them, let them come and do it, but we are not going

51:45anywhere and we are going back to the same thing. These people have 1000 users and on top of that they're going around saying they have deals they don't have. They say, "We have the Ford." No, Ford has an exclusive contract with Der. We have Deal Dinkers, right? Dinkers has an exclusive contract with us. What's more, this company put a list of partners on their website, and they were all "partners," and I had to legally warn them,

52:09tell them, "Hey, all these partners, none of them have a contract with you, it's all a lie. Take them off your court, and you won't be able to find them on their website anymore because they're all lying partners; they have exclusive deals with me." So, and sorry to bother you, but just today I was hearing something about that company, and I'm being crazy, seriously, you know what a crook, man? I mean, UTR and I competed

52:34for two years, but there was never— obviously there's competition, like there's always competition—but there was never any cheating or anything shady, you know? And I think people are starting to notice this new company when they hear them talking. I don't know if you guys have interacted, but I think I've seen your buddy, the coach, your favorite coach, whose name starts with D. [laughs] Ah, well, but, well, [laughs] with that, with that, with that, I already have

53:16to tell you. I already have to tell you everything because, uh, uh, I think Duper is great engagement farming, guys. I think you mention Duper, you go to the kitchen in the Duper forums, and that's it. You've got your afternoon, you've made your afternoon. I think people like to talk, and I think it adds up , but look, we're back to the same thing. I volunteered to tell you personally, and it wasn't a trap

53:43or anything, it was, tell me what's wrong, we'll talk about it, and we'll talk about it publicly so that people could express the things I've explained to you now. Uh, and if people, after having that discussion, still think we're wrong, great, we shake hands, and everything's perfect. But obviously, I don't think it's a question of Duper being bad or good. I think in the end it's about using the image a little. We're not,

54:11and this is for your audience, the residents, we're not The typical company that people think is super big, Silicon Valley, Tal Tech. We have a super passionate, super involved team of people who care, who are listening, reading the comments, we're everywhere, we're super approachable, we're not that kind of profile at all. Out workers, you workers. Perfect. You earn it. Don't be like that, Tito. Okay, one last question, and more than anything, advice. Let's say a

54:44new player comes in who doesn't yet have a doper and really wants to take their doper seriously. What are three pieces of advice you would give them? Because, for example, let me give you my example, I feel that my doper would be much more realistic if I had held tournaments with my students, but for me it was an incredible experience, it helped them a lot as players and as my

55:04students, but there were times when I did n't get involved and take 80% of the balls, you know? I wanted to give them their space so they could really grow as players. So I feel that those losses obviously affected my doper. I'm saying this as an example. But for someone new who really wants to take their doper seriously... Seriously, what do you recommend? Look, I think the most important thing about

55:26taking your duper seriously at the beginning is not to take your duper seriously in the sense of reporting everything you can, playing everything you can, creating experiences, because in the end, the only way to improve your duper is to improve your game. You know there's no other secret. That's the other thing, finding the trick, finding the trick to how I can raise my duper. Your duper goes up if you work with your coach on your

55:51cross-court pack and when you make the right decisions. That's when your duper goes up. Your duper goes up when you learn to time your shots correctly, when you learn to be balanced on the court, you know? When you 're in a close fight and you don't get nervous and you don't fall, you don't lose your balance, that's when it goes up. Those are the changes a player needs to improve their duper. So, it's two

56:10things. Train with your coach, work on the things you need to work on, make sure you Learn, absorb all of that, and don't look for an easy pathway in Duper. The mindset shouldn't be "road to five, road to far." The mindset should be, " Let me improve my forehand, let me improve my serve so that when I add more data, the algorithm keeps growing." That's how I should

56:37look at it, as a measure of who I am today, and when I improve my backhand with my coach, and when I improve my downswing, and when I improve my downswing, maybe see how it's going up as a metric. That's how you look at it. Start your pathway, let's work on what we need to work on. Add as many matches as you can, and when you start to see the results of what you're

57:01training, Duper is going to reflect that, guys. It's going to be a reflection of how you 're playing. That's the reality. Well, thank you very much. I hope you can come here to Tampa, Florida, sometime . Oh, well, if you're coming for a while, come on over. We can play a little match, we can even record it, and we can ask the residents to put the... Duper, they think you are. Let's see how it goes.

57:25Perfect. A 39. Sorry, I didn't want you to tell people you lived there. He didn't see it there. [laughs] We muted that part. Anyway, Tito, thanks and see you soon. A pleasure. Thank you so much for your time. Bye.