El Problema REAL del Pickleball (Tecnología, Estrategia y Futuro) | Tony Roig

0:00Presidents, we're back at the Pable Podcast house with a tremendous guest, Tony Roy. Before we introduce our guest Tony Roy, let's thank All Day Vitality for keeping us entertained. Have you tried one of these, Tony? Give me one. They 've kept us hydrated in preparation for the US Open. Excellent. They are tasty. What's it called? Vitality. It's good. And there we can put the code in the description. Yes, we already

0:28have a code, which is the house. We have one. Yes, the 20% discount is no longer available as of yesterday . Oh, and every code you use helps us to keep growing the channel. And subscribe. Well, Tony Roy, the legend, right? It's a pleasure to be with all of you, with the Latino youth of Pickle Ball. Talking Pickle Ball. I love it and thanks for the invitation. Thank you for being here , I mean,

1:00how long have you been in the industry, starting as a coach? Do you already know? So I agree with you that I'm OG because it's a young sport, right? So, the sport started in the 60s, right? But too young for this stage, aren't you? So, I started playing at 15, I went to my first US Open in 2016. At that time, I don't know if you know the names, but I played with Tom DeCaprio against

1:29West Gaberson and Dan Moore, who at that time were top three players, I mean, they were beasts of those guys. They destroyed us, I mean, and the format was interesting because it was a real open forum. Uh-huh On Friday, you'd arrive on Friday and there was a game, they'd put you on. Of course, they more or less knew who the tough guys were and who weren't, right? Then they threw them to the wolves. If

1:48you won that match, you'd get into the pro, the open, right? If you lost, they would put you at 5-0. So we lost the game, 5 Exactly. Just one game and an interesting concept, isn't it? It was an open, I mean, for real. So, well, fast forward to 2018, uh, I start my YouTube channel. Uh, back when I was there there were, I don't know, six channels, I think, something like that. Uh,

2:13even the other day I was talking on another podcast, an interview, and I mentioned a gentleman named Joe Baker. In my day, the Joe Baker 101 Pickle Ball was the best video for me to understand the sport, it was Joe Baker One1 Pickle. Uh, sure, there was Deb Harrison, there was Sarbergy, there was Mark Renerson with his channel, Pick 411 back then, so early on, right? Uh, Nicole and Jordan

2:38were together at that time. Well, in 2018 I launched my channel and then I got certified and from there little by little, right? Understanding the sport, just like you, right? Studying the sport, trying to see the angle, I sell, and I come from tennis, just like I think everything does, right? So, uh, I didn't really understand tennis that well either, I mean, I played tennis as a kid, but I

2:58never studied it that way. I study pick like chess, that is, for me it is a very beautiful sport and there are some very good details. There we are. And what motivated you to start the channel? Did you see potential at that moment? Did you like it? Did you already have experience with public speaking video production? No, good question. Zero experience. Even if you watch the original videos, I filmed the first videos

3:24in Vermont. At that time, my wife and I were in an RB. We are in Vermont. Uh, I got a tripod like that, right? Uh, I set it up on my iPhone, it must have been a seven on that thing, I don't remember, maybe a six or something, it didn't even have a microphone, so I was talking, like, you couldn't hear me, it was, like, the videos, the video quality wasn't that good, but what I liked

3:46was trying to communicate something relevant, and my goal here isn't to criticize content creators because it's a difficult process, everyone has their own thing, right? But what I see is that it seems like it could be harmful, right? It is, I repeat, not the content creator who is doing it with thought, right? But sometimes there is information that gets leaked, right? It's not that the information is incorrect, it's that the player viewing the

4:20information misunderstands the intended audience, you understand? So, I was looking at information that seemed to me to potentially harm the player. So that's always been my goal, right? And no, I haven't always followed it, have I? But it has always been my goal to try to see if I can simplify the concepts in a way that applies whether it's 5 or 25. But people ask me, what level is it? So, what level is your training?

4:51Sol ball. Speakable. Speakable Ball. Now you guys will do better than the 3-0 teams that are playing away right now or whatever, right? But it's the same game, that is, the same idea, the same concept. The same goes for the marbles, the same for the net, that is, that's how I see it. That was my motivation. Okay. Yes. I personally, when I started playing, I can confirm this, your YouTube channel was

5:15the first one I started looking for in Spanish. You did n't have many videos, maybe four or five, and those videos really helped me understand the game a lot. That's when I started to stop just hitting the ball for the sake of hitting it and started to understand what a drop shot was, what the reason for it was, right? Those things, and that's why I say you're a legend to me personally, because when I

5:44saw those videos, I said, "Okay, I want to take this a little more seriously." And that inspiration also made me rethink how to get the message of Pique to people. That's why we started this project, also to try to bring Pique to more people in Spanish. Of course, because there's so much information in English, so much. Back then, when I watched your videos, it was hard for me to understand; I had to watch them

6:12five, even seven times to be able to understand them more or less. So, you really were—and I'm telling you this straight up—you were a great inspiration, at least for the Latin American world. I'm very grateful, and I support you all. We talked before starting the podcast, right? And any support you give in continuing to increase the amount of information available to you is greatly appreciated. The information is important to the person in Spanish. It's

6:43important because this is a sport that can be played in all countries where Spanish is spoken, right? And it's super important that they have access to the information. What they do with the information? That's for them to determine. But what worries me, not only as a coach but as someone interested in such a beautiful sport, a sport that can have such a positive impact, is that there aren't barriers for someone who wants to improve in this

7:16game, in this sport, that they can do it, that they feel good about it. And you know, yesterday I posted something like a hottech post, and then I realized that I was one of those people who criticized content creators who made general content but didn't specify who it was for. And then someone asked me what I thought about this advice for a player of a certain level. If you give advice for a player... Yes,

7:465.0, 4.5, but a 3.5 for someone with limited mobility, or who is older, or maybe it's not the best content for that person. It's something I criticize Dan Grinrich for a lot , that he posts these things so people get into arguments in the comments, which I, as a coach, appreciate because I'm not his biggest fan, I do n't know him, but I kind of understand, I understand that many

8:13people can take it the wrong way. I agree with you on both points you mention, Carlos, but I also have nothing against Dan and his stuff, right? But it does worry me—maybe a very strong word, right?—but I do think that sometimes the way his presentations are a bit too extreme for me, like, " Hey, go, go, go, go!" Hey, take a break, let's breathe a little, let's relax a bit because it's

8:51too much pressure, it seems to me. In some aspects, yes, but it does seem like a process for you guys too, I mean, as you develop your topic, you talk about being more general and providing content that works for everyone. It's a really good concept, and I like it because I just saw a video Ericins posted on Gage where he says, "How to beat bengers?" And it's like two options: one is to

9:14counter like super deep, and the other is to do drop shots, right? And people started commenting, right? Another player said, "I don't think it's very good information about the aspect because you can't tell a 30er to start doing drop shots and invite them into the kitchen, you know?" Then he corrected himself, saying, "No, it is for more advanced people, I don't know what." So yes, sometimes even professional players don't really believe that, and they do

9:40create those mistakes without thinking, right? But I say, I mean for myself, and I repeat, it's not a criticism of the professional player or anything like that, right? Everyone has their own lane, their own path, right? And, for example, there was a video a long time ago that Matt Wright made, right? And I'm not criticizing him because he didn't think about the effect, but he talked about the dead think and he

10:02called him dumb in the video. I'm going to show you hours of video of Matri hitting that same dink in professional games because he hits that dink, Ben Jones hits that dink, everyone hits the dink, the flat dead d, everyone uses it. Rosco Bellamy recently at least said, "Use the dead ding." So now people argue, which to me is a kind of stupid argument, but people argue now if they don't like the

10:26dink, they say, "No, that wasn't a dead dink, that's something else." But the Dink one is the Dink that is dead, the Dink that does nothing, but you use it for Exactly, exactly. But loot too, right? The B shot, right? In other words, it's like a detention, but if you want to do it, you do it, but that's more advanced. Yes, yes, he does it like a red one, you throw the little

10:44red one at him. But the DK one should still be part of your Arsenal, I mean, because if you're always trying to play the perfect shot and risk the net a lot, you've lost, right? So, tell me . And that's one of the biggest mistakes I see with players of type 3.5, 4.0. You see them all, everything, but you put a little something at their feet and they throw a little bomb or they throw it into

11:08the net. That's when you do a facelift or something. But look, look at the best example for me. I forgot this name, but I'll tell you now. Look, Colin Jones, Colin Jones is competitive and the D Colin Jones, you teach that, Dink, to the players here, they tell you that you're a bia, you do n't know what you're doing, but why can't Col do it against the best? And it's one thing, I mean,

11:28for me they are things that and another thing is that pro players and no, I don't criticize them, but they don't know any other way. They tell you, make a video, they say, uh uh there's a course that An Lee did, I repeat, I 'm not criticizing her personally, but a course that she did, the masterclass, I saw a couple of videos, right? And it was, she says, "That's how I do the two-hand back, and okay,

11:51perfect for you, but I'm not Anali Waters because, I mean, it's interesting to know, but no, I'm not going to use what your David does. What I tell my players, my coaches—I'm not saying you personally, you, Carlos, and me either—I tell them, don't copy me. You understand the dynamics of the shot, you understand the parts, the leg you need, I mean, all that, and you develop the shot you like , not mine.

12:17Why would you copy me or anyone else? It's like, I really like golf, and I played golf as a kid, and I'm watching more golf again, watching a lot of coaches give lessons, and what they say is that no two swings are the same. You can understand the fundamentals, but not all swings are the same. So, do n't think, no. I also want you to do what's more rewarding, because more It gives you more value

12:47when it's your shot. I mean, I'm not copying David, David isn't copying me, but I understand that the concepts David or Ángel teaches me, you teach me. So I say, "Ah, okay, perfect." Then I adapt it to my way of being, right? So, the strategy in general also applies , right? Because I think the idea of ​​this is a game that I analyze as if it were mixed martial arts, not UFC, like martial arts, but mixed.

13:17So, if you look at that area, right? You have a boxer. The boxer, who is he? That's the banger here, I mean, whoever wants to go hard is the boxer, the same, the boxer. But if you can't box well, well, throw jujitsu at him, throw judo at him. I mean, there are other ways, there are other ways to approach the game. So, I tell the players that because then they see Going back,

13:42for example, to a den who posts something saying, "No, you have to be aggressive, you have to go all out, that's you, D, that's not all, not everyone plays like that." And there are other players who are successful playing in other ways, right? Even Colin Jones, he plays differently and he's successful. Sure, he doesn't have Ben's success because Ben has other aspects, but anyway. Look, and how do you think we can link the RPM sword that's

14:09supporting us right now? Use the code house 15. It's my favorite ball. I really like the new 16 because the grip is more rectangular, it feels great in my hand. But what I wanted to ask you, Tony, is how have these game paddles changed and how have you adapted your content? I mean, what recommendations can you give? Well, there's something I feel is that having started playing, Pable, 3 years ago, maybe does

14:37n't give you as much of an advantage with the game as it was then, compared to how the game is now. Oh, I'm Wrong. What do you think? Well, the game, the POS, has changed the game a lot, and I don't remember if it was three, two, four years ago, but recently, I mean, in the new era, after when Electron came out, Electron was one of those first padel games that people said, "What is

14:58this?" I mean, Electron, which got banned, right? I think so, eventually, but it was a padel game that when it came out people said, "Wow." I mean, because it changed the, you remember? Yes. It changed the game, you could see the impact of padel, right? On the game. Um, frankly, I'm a little afraid of what's happening with padel. Um, not for us, but for the 60-year-old lady who never plays

15:22sports and you bring her here and they're hitting her hard, I mean, so she leaves, she doesn't play. But for me, look, I really love this sport and for me it has It has a lot of value, and I know it for you too. But it has even more value for that woman, for the community. Yes, for that woman, for the man who lost his wife, for whoever it is,

15:44the person who is depressed, whatever it may be, it changes their life. So, we must protect this sport , in my opinion, for that group. The rest of us make do with what we have. I mean, you give me this padel, not the RPM picking, but the padel technology, for me, the technology of the padel should be reduced by about 15%. Hold on there, leave it there, let it develop . They did that

16:13in baseball, right? Remember when they had the bat that was all about home runs, the aluminum bat? Well, that doesn't work. So, that's not going to make the game boring. Exactly. And if it's all about power, then change that. It's not the game for me. We were just talking about that because I've had a couple of weeks, well, like six, of... I've been training differently for weeks now, I mean, going back to my tennis phase

16:39of hitting hard, and that's when I've won the most matches, but I feel like I'm not enjoying the game. So, what I fell in love with is getting into the nitty-gritty, working the point, winning the point by working it, you know? I feel like that strategy is key now; if you don't adapt, especially at an advanced level, to hitting hard, you're going to fall behind, you 're going to die. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're a

17:06basic player. No, no, no. And it can't be what these players can do with the ball now, the movement they can make with the ball, so it lets you attack from points that you shouldn't be able to attack , you shouldn't be able to hit it inside the court from that point with that force, but now you can. Exactly. You know, besides the racket, I think that's also a little bit of a problem. Well, what happens

17:29is that the new ball , the Lifetime, honestly, what I... What I like is the bounce, which is constant, but I still think it's a dangerous ball, a very fast ball, it's a very fast ball, as you say, at the level of an adult, a person who, let's say, is an adult because they don't have the same reflexes as a young person. Yes. And at the end of the day, most of

17:54the people who keep this sport going are adults, and we have to keep that in mind. And what I frankly don't understand about the PO company, I started down this path to do something about it. I was going to do an open letter, I mean, an open letter, I was going to do some services and all that, but I don't have, I don't have, I don't have the band, I don't have the banner to

18:16do it, but for me, you're RPM or you're Yola or Celcro or whatever, are you thinking 10 years or 2 years? If you're thinking 2 years, sell it now. Sell the Gen Nin or whatever, because people are going to buy it, the fo the Boomst, all that stuff. But damn, in 10 years you didn't grow the business, which to me doesn't make sense. It's that a lot of the fake business is being built

18:42around the professional pick. Exactly. Which is that less than 0.1% and is leaving aside what you were saying. And another very big problem right now is the noise, which has been a problem for quite some time, but the other day I have a class at 7 , at 7. I love it , but you have a class at 7 outside with two silver generation three countries [sigh][suppressed scream] in the parking lot, it's like a cannon

19:15and that's going to affect, I mean, you, uh, I who work right now at the Racket Club, we've talked to the city because there have been a couple of problems with noise problems and cities, I'll give you San Pedro as an example, are changing their noise pollution codes because, yes, yes, there are already communities in California that have already prohibited them, they've already banned the courts. Brand new ones that people can't use anymore.

19:43Well, if you buy a piece of land, a house, and you're thinking of setting up a pickball court, you have to apply for a permit and see if they approve it. If they approve it, you can open it, you can set up your court. If not, there's no way. There's a way, there's no way. They're already a little tired of what you're saying, the noise, and I also feel that, I mean, I'm

20:02relatively new to pickball, I've been doing it for 3 years, but I remember when I started, only the really advanced players had those expensive paddles, right? $200, $ 250. Now you go to any public place or here, all these ladies, they're not even two kids, you know? With boats, you know? I mean, they have paddles that are more expensive than the ones we all use , like, that's it, I mean, the marketing is

20:30practically making it seem like if you're not buying the most expensive paddle, you're doomed, you're not going to play well. Exactly. But the opposite, but the problem is also that they see this player hitting harder because they have one. So, what are you going to do? Well, when I started, I started with an Epic 20 back in the day, I think it was a 6, and it was one of the top

20:52battles back then, right? The 20. Full Hornicon. Ah, full Hornicon. Hornicon, right? And back then, one of their lines was aluminum. The inside of that thing was aluminum. It was a honeycomb aluminum. So back then, you couldn't pad it because it would get damaged. So you had to turn it around and hit it with the back. Exactly. You had to do that because if they hit you on top, it would get damaged. There are

21:20people who just go and hit it . Hey, hey, calm down. Well, I like it. I arrive, sure, I mean, I just leave the paddle there and I'll let you hit it to me, but I can move it too, you know? I mean, go ahead, be careful, relax. Look, and speaking of marketing, there's a boom, a huge craze right now with Asia. And the question is, how do you see pickleball as an industry in Latin America?

21:49For me, look, it's interesting, right? Because pickleball, for me, is a sport that can obviously be played at any economic level, which is important to me. I grew up, I don't know if you know, but I lived in Puerto Rico and Venezuela, right? And the last country I visited , I think it was Peru about three years ago, but we all know that in our countries, right? Tennis is a sport with money, I mean, you don't

22:21play tennis if you don't have money. Exactly. Whereas pickleball is a sport that can be played at a , what's it called? Parking. Uh, you know what's interesting, you see it in India, in India they play it on dirt, on a concrete slab, you can play on anything, right? In China you see them playing in a conference center, they put down whatever, you put down a rope, it doesn't matter. So, that seems very

22:45important to me, this sport, I mean, the ability for more people to enjoy it, right? Uh, so I think that overcomes the limitations of a sport like tennis in our countries, which is a sport. I grew up playing tennis in Venezuela, in Caracas, right? And we traveled and everything, but it was all against the local club. There's no public court there , right? You're talking about a public court, while Picopol is

23:10more conducive to that, I think. I think it's extremely important, and I think it can be achieved, similarly to Asia, the thing is always, for all these things like purchasing power, uh, No, that too, but also, what 's the fuel? What's the, I mean, what gives it the boost? I mean, what exactly, what takes off, for example, in Asia they play badminton, right? And this is a badminton court, so the transfer is easier, right? For them.

23:39Whereas in Latin America a little more and frankly, a side story, something here. Pickle Ball was, it took a while to get to Miami, right? Miami didn't play Pickle Ball until... But the only reason, I assure you the only reason they didn't play Pickle Ball before was because of the name, because Cubans in Miami, I'm from a Cuban family, pickle . That's a load of crap, I don't understand that stuff, you know

24:07? [laughs] No, because it's not a sport, the name is weird. I mean, a weird name. It's a weird name. So, I don't know, if you translate it, it's a weird name. And how, I mean, how? Well, that can't be surpassed, I think. How can we change? How can we better start a campaign to give it a Spanish name? No, no, I don't have one. What I've seen when I transcribe it phonetically. That's pickle ballo.

24:29Yes, I say pickle. Pickel too. Yes, pickel in Spanish. And they add piquel, they add piquel. [laughs] Hey, but that's not bad. Like, and I say piquel, but you change the l and the e. Do you change the l and the e or not? No, I say piquel. Yes, but when you write it, change the l and the e. Write it piquel. No, piquele. No, not piquele. Correct.

24:52No, but write piquel. I say if you want to write it. No, piquele would be in Italian, you see? That 's your country. My second pastry country. But because, getting to the topic of Latin America, I realize now the first time I went to Mexico already knew the sport , and it was played in public parks, I mean, with horrible holes and everything. They put up terrible nets, but people enjoyed it, 40 people going there on

25:24three or four little courts, and well, smart, the American who started this charged 200 Mexican pesos to go play in a park. And how much? Like $10, I mean, that's a lot. For a free park where you can go for free, right? And I mean, I went once and I loved the idea, but I said, "No, I'm going to break my ankle here to play with [laughs]. I said, no more." But now it's

25:46grown, there's just opened a club with 10 courts in Mexico City in Polanco, which is quite big. It's called Pickle Co. The Pickle Co. In Polanco. Go play Polancoísimo. We have to go to Mexico. Yes, let's go. I've never been to Mexico City. I love it. Beautiful. I've never I've been to Mexico, but never to Mexico City. I think it's like Caracas on steroids, right? Yeah, but it's also like, imagine Caracas and Miami

26:14combined. But it has, but it's wow, but it's surrounded by mountains too, right? Because it's like, it's high, right? But it's a valley, but high, right? Come on, [laughs] I'm in. We're in. We're going to Mexico. We're going to do a field in Exactly. 22 million people. Yes. Look, excuse me, getting back to the topic for a bit, I'd like to ask Roy a special question, it's how, what happens is that I,

26:43for example, I'm a coach who dedicated myself to being a coach because I fell so in love with the sport that I said, I have to teach this to my people, to my people in Venezuela. That was always my method, but well, for one reason or another I've never been able to get there, but and here I am, right? So I dedicated myself I'm doing this full time. I've never played tennis, right?

27:02I come from soccer, so for me, I had to go and learn it, I'm still learning , I had to learn from scratch, like from day one, and every time I have to learn something new. And I think that's also one of the reasons why, with the new rackets, the game is faster. I mean, I feel like I have to be constantly looking for information because people, the client or the player in this case,

27:30always want to know, like, how do I beat the bad guys? So, you know? I don't like to teach that game . Yes. First, because it 's not my style, like you said, it's not my style. You're like, I'm like, judo or jujitsu. I am, I'm a little bit... no, I'm a little bit more peace and love. My thing, no, but that's how jujitsu is. Jujitsu is softer, calmer, more like how I like to do

27:53certain shots, the drops, I love them. People say the drop shot is dead, but... For me, it's still a necessary shot. Who says that? That's not what I mean . For me, it's still a necessary shot, but, like, you have to combine it. That's what I try to tell the students, although I'll tell you something after that drop shot, but go ahead, he'll tell me in a bit. Let me finish the [laughs] part where I tell

28:14the students, I tell them a lot, I say, "Try to play, like, try to play the game, you know?" So, become unpredictable, don't get stuck hitting the same shot over and over, playing mini-balls or something like that. Exactly. I mean, do something different, look up, I do n't know, and do something different that keeps the opponent on their toes. So, I'd like to ask the real question, how did you do it?

28:37How did you adapt, how did you go from the old school to the new school? For me, the school hasn't changed that much here, I mean, it changes a little, but the banger has always been a banger. I mean, in this sport, when you give a tennis player a shot from the Pico Ball and put it on the court, it's going to hit them hard, and that's it, regardless of the technology, even if it's from

29:0310 years ago. So, the banger has always been something. Uh, what's changed is that obviously they can hit it harder now. Uh, but I repeat, when I'm aiming, I'm basically aiming for 30, 35, that level, they still don't control it. The ball, the ball is already going out. For me, the most important thing against the banger is the out-of-bounds bounce. If you don't use the out-of- bounds bounce, you're dead because you're going to hit the whole

29:26ball, right? So, frankly, I don't think it's necessary to adapt so much at many levels of play. When I reached your level, the professional level, it was already something else. I mean, because of the things they can do with the ball, so the game changes, it's changed for them. If you look at the games from the old days, you know who El Condor is, Enrique Ruiz. He's one of the greats, I

29:51think he's a Mexican gentleman, forget Siaro, he's a big guy, I mean, they call him El Condor because of his nickname, he had a great touch. The guy won all the medals back then, in 2014 and 2015 he won in national singles. Today he doesn't get two points in the first round, I mean, of any professional tournament. So, the game has changed a lot. So, Enrique Ruiz, and I respect Enrique, you're a monster,

30:20he is, but, I mean, the fact that a player like him can win in singles is because back then you could play with extra stuff, like a more traditional game, if you want to think of it that way. There weren't the shots that there are now, there wasn't a Chris Hayworth or an Annie Waters hitting the ball like that, you know? So, I don't think it takes as much adaptation as

30:39one might anticipate. I do think you have to use the court, I mean, and for me, if you play a style of pickleball that doesn't generate points, that doesn't take into account the long shot , you're not playing other games, you're playing mini- tennis, whatever. But with that said, in my opinion , the third shot drop isn't necessary before 4-0. Why? Because the third shot drop is a great shot. I use it, you guys use it,

31:11perfect, but it's a shot that without the other parts, with the movement and all that, it's useless, and that part is very complicated. So, I What I tell people is, let's focus on the return side, on the evolution side, because that's not where the money is. Play better there, you'll play very well, and leave the serve as it is until it's 4-0. I don't care about the torch drop. People tell me I'm crazy, I have no

31:35problem with that. No, not with you, but I say, I have my way of thinking about it, and I can do something. What I'm starting to teach my players is three points: okay, maybe they tell me, "Ah, the drop shot is killing me." Well, let's start aiming it more at the feet, starting to play with a little more intention. But I would say, and the problem is this, Carlos, is that I'm not

31:59telling you not to teach the torch drop. I agree. No, but the problem is that if you teach it as a coach, you have to close your business. Yes, of course, because the clients leave because everyone wants The torch trap. I try to explain it to them. I understand that they say, "No, go ahead, just focus on the torch drop and that's fine." But for me, there's, for example, the return of serve,

32:20for me there's no more important shot. If you tell me the first thing a 2'30" player does is 100% of the time, it's the return of serve, practice that thing. If you improve that thing, the bangers don't bother you, nothing bothers you because you're always returning deep, right? And you don't miss and there's no problem. But anyway, nobody wants to practice that. They want the torch drop, they want the earp, the pins.

32:44That's what has changed the most in my teaching. At the beginning, I started teaching in 2023, I think, and my classes were 45 minutes of one thing and 15 minutes of something else. Now, sometimes I start with something else to warm up, to see how I manage the class, and then I don't touch anything else. Yes, for the rest of the class. The D for me It 's a good shot for teaching

33:10mechanics. I mean, I use it for mechanics, I mean, I use it to teach how to interact with the ball and the paddle, right? Paddle and ball. So, from there, I teach a way of hitting a groundstroke, or how do I say ground in Spanish, a groundstroke, right? A groundstroke. A mechanic that you can use for the dink, for the serve, for the serve evolution, for the lob, for the drive. All the same, I

33:38mean, where you don't have to have a link shot like this and then a drive like this. You can have a drive like this, a lob like this, the whole thing like this, the serve like this, and the evolution like this. You have one mechanic. By the way, if you live here in Tampa and you're watching this podcast, look, we can put you in touch with Roy here so you can have a lesson with him.

33:57I taught him how to do the double spin on the backhand side and the twinner. Let's go to the twinner. 15 minutes of twinner. Look, a question here, Who does it? When I started watching Pickerball, when I started playing Pickerball in 2021, I think it was mostly in 2022, I watched too much professional Pickerball in the last two years. I mean, I watch Pickerball because we have media outlets that play there, or there

34:26's Smash, or sometimes I put a team there, but I've gotten tired of watching Pickerball. What do you think Pickerball needs? And I know that many people, I know that Angelo and David feel the same way or for different reasons, but many of my students don't see what you think is needed for professional Pickerball to improve as a product? I think that for me, and we talk from time to time with people from the PPA,

34:55with MLP, we have contact there, we do a little social media with them. That's what I think is needed, stories, I mean, if you look at tennis, for example , tennis has done a good job, particularly in the era of Jokovic, Federer, and Nadal, I mean, it was an interesting era, I mean, It was, even if you don't understand that much, not you, but the audience, sure, maybe they don't understand the dynamics of it. Exactly. The

35:21strategy, but they like the drama, right? Of what's happening. There we have Alcar and Ciner, right? I mean, it's interesting. For me, pickle ball has to keep developing that. I frankly, I still like watching the professional game, but I'm watching it because I'm looking for the strategic changes they're making. For example, if you look at Ben Jones' strategy today, it's changed. Now, Ben's drive and third are always to the left leg

35:55of the person straight away, the person directly in front of him, not to the angle, not [clears throat] the middle. Well, more or less the middle is basically right, but the left leg. Exactly. He hits the drive there and then the drop there, and his dinking has changed. His dinking was always... Diagonal. He was diagonal, diagonal, diagonal, diagonal until he waited for the roll he could make. Now he goes diagonally and then goes to his

36:26left leg and diagonally to his left leg, and then when, for example, a head shot or something like that gets too involved, then he shoots to the corner, right? To the diagonal, and the rest of the team shoots. It's interesting for me to see that. You also see, for example, Ana Waters has the ability to attack from the outside through the middle, which is very... I mean, it's difficult if you try that shot a lot

36:48from the outside, right? From the corner, the Dink Wire, so you shoot it through the middle and they kill you. Not Ana, Ana shoots it that way It's also the vision he has, right? You see? For example, I like the game just now, uh, JW Johnson and Georgia against uh, sister Georgia against Haiden and Ana, right? And for me, it's interesting to see how they, JW and Georgia, win the first game 114,

37:12they're down 71 in the second game, they come back, they come back up 87, they lose 119 And they lose 11-0 in the third game. And why? You can see the strategy, you can see it, I mean, when, for example, Georgia Johnson does the short d, for me, the short d, I don't know how you guys think , but the short d is a disaster. You can do it when necessary, but if

37:34you see when she goes up against Ana Bright, Ana eats her alive, because Ana Bright sets herself up, prepares herself, gets the Apex, and Georgia, meanwhile, short d, shut up. Nothing happens with that. And then, what does Hiden do? He's looking for her, he 's hunting her, and when he sees her, he goes and kills her. Then the video says, "Sure, you can see it." I mean, those are things that I find interesting

37:57, but well, I do n't have a big answer for you, Carlos. No, it's not that [laughs], it's that at least you, with what you are today making your videos on YouTube or the podcasts you have now, comparing them with what you did before, now you can see that you've climbed to the next level. Level. And which one? And what do I say ? The next level. You start to see the game more strategically, which is

38:24where I want to start focusing now, because I'm practically entering an age—well, I entered it a while ago. Exactly. A while ago [laughs] I was at the point where, when I feel I can compete against these guys, two more come along who are, damn, they change the game again. So I'm in that process of accepting, okay? That enough is enough of just playing or committing to playing, but starting to really see the game,

38:55study the game as it is, and start helping people. Look, if you want to try to win this part of this level, because as you said, the pro level is totally different: the training, the preparation, the drills, the drills. At 4-0, at 4-5, at 5-0, from 50-0 down, it's a different game than the pro level. As I often tell my students, you have two ways to play this game. Do you play it competitively,

39:24or do you play it for fun? You decide which one. If you want to play competitively, you have to spend a lot of time on the court. Of course . Your performance in competition will depend on the hours you spend on the court Of course. And if you simply want to have fun, I'm going to teach you how to have fun. That's my specialty because I fell in love with this sport by having fun.

39:44How much of a pushback am I going to give you because I agree with you that obviously, if you want to be a professional or you want to compete, your training changes and all that, but the game itself isn't that important. And I 'll tell you why. I've had the good fortune to work with some professionals, right? To do a little coaching, not much, but a little. They hate it. But I have to

40:07tell these professional players that they have a problem with their return of serve. Look, such a basic problem, I mean, such a simple thing... Basic. You say, fundamental, but I, I, and I teach them because obviously if I'm going to say that, I have to back it up, I have to give them the evidence, right? So I show them the video. I say, look, dude, look, here it is, here's an

40:30example I'm going to give you in general, a match where they're up 9 to 3, right? Uh, side out. Then another team is hitting four returns , not missing, but short and bad. Nothing, nothing. 79 like that at the professional level. So, for me, I say the best, the best or best player, well, uh, men, women, Anya Wars. What does Anya Wars do better than anyone? The fundamentals. Anya Wars never gives you a short return, never

41:04, never. That's why they get to the first round 110, 111 and the second round 111, 113. It's never like, uh, no. And you look at the top spots. Benny G went to three games in the first round. He just gave me a lesson, I mean, a lesson to start applying, they trained. For me, for me and for the students too, because thinking about it now in retrospect, thanks, friend. Um, [laughs]

41:32I don't practice, I don't practice, I mean, I'll practice returns, maybe two or three stupid ones there, seven returns, then we play and the same with the students. It's, I mean, I'm going to start for real with... But think, think, let me give you two ways, let me give it to you two ways. Okay. How many service returns? Think for a second. How many service returns can you miss before losing the match?

42:01I mean, without losing the match. The maximum number of returns you can miss. 10. 10. Okay. Let's stop for a second. Uh, [laughs] the kid, the kid is sharp. Kid. He's, you know. Too smart. Too much. So [laughs] I'm going to say one. So, so . How many serves can you miss without losing the match? Quite a few. Infinite. All of them. So, we have two shots. Put them side by side.

42:30I have one shot that I have 10 in one basket and the other infinity. Take that to the next one. How many forots? How many fourth shots can you miss before losing? 10. How many thir shots can you miss before losing? All of them. So, there's no comparison. And I'm going to throw you another one, another little curveball. How many? How many thirds can you miss and I'm going to win the match? Infinite

42:54. All of them. Of course, because it's the same as a serve, then. No, well, no, no, no, you can't miss all the serves and win. Sure, but you can miss all the thir and win. If, if, if the match drags on long enough, you can even beat Ben Jones because Ben Jones is going to miss returns at a certain pace, right? So that's a way of Think about

43:12the evolution, but the other important part of the return is how it impacts the rest of the point, the ripples. If you hit it short, you don't get forward, they kill you, they're killing you, and if you hit it deep, they complicate things for themselves. It changes everything, it changes everything. That's the difference. My observation has always been that people like to see a lot of, like, for example, Tardio, oh, he has

43:39great wristwork, he grabs it up here , it's impossible to hit him, so people don't realize that the guy doesn't miss a three-shot drop shot to get up to the kitchen. Exactly. That's where the money is. That's where they win, and that's when you say that the game doesn't change much from 4.5 down, because the biggest changes come from 4.5 up. Oh, right, but it's the same thing, it's not just that

44:03the execution is higher, I mean, but Gio, like Gorio, hits a three-shot drop shot more easily than people here. The three-shot It's simpler than what's happening here because he basically either goes back or Colin too. Colin, Colin. Ben's third, Ben's third is flat. The third is flat. He lifts it and doesn't care. And these guys, everyone wants to hit it like that over the net, they want to give it spin,

44:27they want all the stuff, and if [snort] they see I missed it, no. No, I'm going to tell you something. I'm going to save this video and watch it for us. [laughs] Yeah. No, no, don't post it because no. While we're at it, subscribe and if you also like this information, record it and share it with your teammates to see if they play better. Look. And here to wrap things up, this is a

44:47question we're going to ask our guests in this second season of the podcast. How do you see the pickable five? The pickable five. What will the pickable be like in 5 years? Uh, that's very interesting. And it could be as an industry, right? I like it, I like it. Uh, first of all, congratulations to you on your second Season. Congratulations, damn it. And that takes effort, it takes follow-through. Obviously, they come here,

45:10they do the recording, there's a lot of work behind the scenes. Congratulations to you for doing this. Uh, with love in 5 years. Uh, very interesting, okay? Very interesting. I think if we stay where we are with padel, we're kind of stuck, we're a little tied down. Locally, I mean, here in the United States, I mean, internationally there's still a lot of growth. For me, it surprises me that Asia isn't bigger than us yet.

45:33I expected that Asia would have already surpassed us, right? Because of its infrastructure, the number of people in India, Indonesia. This is the biggest sport in Indonesia, and to some extent in China, obviously. Uh, for me, Asia is going to surpass us, right? The United States. Uh, I hope it grows in Latin America, but what I am frankly concerned about is the impact of technology on limiting people, particularly older people. Because that's

46:04a world that still has room to grow, in my opinion. A lot. Yes. Do you think that exponential, let's say infinite growth, is in the community? Yes, for me, if you think about it, what is it? I repeat, for us, baseball is important, and we love the sport, and we play and compete and all that, but for the person who uses this as a more social activity, for them it's super key, and it's not only important

46:34for the sport, it's important for the community, important for the player, right? It changes people's lives, it changes lives, and the game changed my life. Yes, yes, definitely, definitely. I met my son again after 28 years. I had abandoned him there in Venezuela. You know. It has changed our lives. But anyway, Tony, thank you for being here with us. That was great. Good luck with the project, you know? Because I heard that you're

47:03also involved with the psychological aspect. You 're getting into the psychological side, and my podcast is Pab Therapy, right? P.'s therapy. I say "speak about therapy" because for me, the game is therapy for people, and I think if you have a better perspective, right? A better understanding, frankly, I know we're done, but here I go one more minute. Um, for me it 's important to understand that we play a sport, and it's no different than tennis,

47:27but it's understanding it, or any other sport where, let's say, you and Ángel are going to play against Carlos and David, right? We're going to go out there and give it our all. We don't play a sport where either you and I are going to win or they're going to win. Now, they know they can't beat us, but, well, hypothetically they win, right? But no, but I mean, when you

47:47understand, you start to understand that better, you say, let's suppose we give it our all and you guys beat us. 13, 11, 12 days, something like that, a real battle, right? Damn, to leave the court and not just think, damn, Ángel, the We screwed up , we played so badly, didn't we? Damn, you played so well, okay? That shot you took in the 10th minute, damn, that shot was great. And you know that I think

48:06American culture has more of that. In Venezuela, people hate to give the ball to the opponent or to the one who is... Well, here too, here too. Here I think, look, I tell my friends when we play, when I'm not going to say names, but I'll tell you a story that happened. Yes, yes, we're [laughs], but we finished one of those hard-fought games where we're down there with the guys here my age, right? But

48:34four or five up, right? So we 're down, put 9 to 2, 9 to 3, something like that. We fought hard, we didn't get to 10 or 11 and they beat us 131, but it was a good game, was n't it? It was a hard-fought game and we played well, I mean, we made our best effort. So the game ended, and my partner, who 's a good guy, a really good guy,

48:56a good man, said to me in front of the other players, "Damn, Tony, that shot was a miss. If he hadn't missed that shot, look, I stopped him and said, 'Look, I know it wasn't your intention, but right now you're disrespecting our friend, the other guy who was with us, and think about it for a minute.' I mean, we did fight hard and all that, but damn it, it's not like they didn't

49:18do anything, it's not like they weren't important. And why take away their winnings? No, just like I don't want them to take away from me if I beat them, right? So I think it's things like that that I do in my life, like what you asked me, think about those things, think from a slightly different perspective so that, for example, if I ask people, 'What percentage of winning and losing is there in your

49:40life?' You're going to play 20,000 games, How much are you going to win out of 20,000 games? How much do you expect to win? Half. Exactly. 10 and 10, right? That's correct. So it should be roughly like that . That for the average player should be, by the way, uh, 53%. That's my 53 wins. 53/ 11,000. But that's normal. So I tell people, because people want to win more,

50:07right? So make it personal, do it like this. And so I tell the students, I say, "Okay, look, you want to win 70%, so you look at David and look him in the face and say, 'Look, David, I don't give a [ __ ] about you, dude. You're going to win, I want 70, you have to get 30, 30 for you, 70 for me, because you have to take it from someone and that's kind of

50:26ugly.'" It's ugly to think like that, is n't it? It's ugly to think like that, and that's how you think it, so it changes your attitude a little when you play, and when you lose, it's not that you lost, they played better than you at that moment. That's fine, damn it. And congratulate them, right? And give them what they deserve. But well, I really like that, and I think it's important. The

50:45psychological aspect is so important at all levels, because I think that's sometimes the hardest thing for us as coaches. You can give them all the tools, but if their mind isn't there and they're psychologically weak, it's stressful for you as a coach and for them as players, because it's like, I don't know what's happening in practice, I don't miss a single shot, you see it in the game, first shot missed, you know?

51:11But I just served 100 times and did n't miss a single one. The psychological aspect is very important. The mental aspect is... I don't know if you know it, but there's a famous saying by Yogi Vera, right? About baseball, that he... He was saying that 90% of baseball is mental and another 50% is physical. Something like that. Basically, it's mental. It's all mental. I mean, baseball, the sport that left the country where you were born,

51:37where you were born, abandoned you. You came looking for me here. [laughs] Congratulations Venezuela on World Baseball. Yes, Tony. Thank you again for taking the time, it's a pleasure to have you, to listen to everything. Honestly, I still say it without shame. You are the legend of the pick here, at least in the area where we live. Keep going, my brother. I mean, keep being an inspiration to us and to those coming up. Okay,

52:04thank you very much. You guys keep up your effort, keep up your work. Thank you, but what you guys are doing is very important too. Thank you, Toni. Thank you.